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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Whats with all the junk audience recordings from the mid eighties flowing in here like this is a sewer?

I mean there are Miller remasters from Rob Eaton's FOB recordings for most of these files already. Do we really need more inferior sourced snoozers from '85 and '87 to know Jer's voice was shot and the band was mailing it in?

How many different files of 10/11/83 do you need anyway?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Don't worry about it and listen to this!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-10-18.sbd.weir.7295.sbeok.shnf

PITB>Drums>Dark Star>Dew>PITB to open the second set!! Nice UJB jam reminiscent of the transitions in the China>Riders from '73 and '74 in the Dark Star ta boot.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Or this real nice AUD

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-10-20.fob.akgd224e.holwein.motb-0094.100700.flac24

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Thanks Larry, nice eye opener, that Dagwood breakfast sandwich, in spite of the problematic mix!

Little sweetspot, late '72, as the band is rounding the corner into 1973...

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Poster: dirtybuck Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

How may times do we have to see your posts about how much
you hate the eighties ? lighten up and go outside.
82-84 smokes !

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 20, 2009 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Right on ,Buck , vive les GD of the 80's ! Oui , na !

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

"How may times do we have to see your posts about how much
you hate the eighties ?"

As many times as I feel up to expressing my opinion!

Just as you are free to disagree!

If sticking up for Jer chasing the dragon during Drums/Space during a mid-eighties shnorrer validates the money and time you spent during '83 or '84 attending shitty shows, knock yourself out...

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Oct 23, 2009 6:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

cliff, I think there were more recording setups than just the truck stop shower boys.... speaking of charlie miller, Obama's wife great grand pa was a german named miller.

Is this charlie miller's great grand ma ?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/03/30/business/30adco1.650.jpg



This post was modified by B.C. Cox on 2009-10-23 13:25:26

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Oct 23, 2009 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

lmao!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

I don't see any reason to complain about having more content available here.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

How about quality not quantity?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Should we establish a Board of Review that would be responsible for listening to each and every potential upload to grade it's worthiness for inclusion here? Seeing as how most of us appear to have a combination of little to no life, a plethora of spare time and a rather self-inflated sense of our own ability to decide on what is and what is not any good, it could work.


Methinks.


This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-10-20 14:12:41

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 20, 2009 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

It's a point and click world out there, in here, and if you don't want to hear it, don't click on it. (Opining humbly.)

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Where I work, when one makes such a fine suggestion they are usually put in charge of the activity that they thought of. Congratulations Mr. Chairman of the Board. Or is that Bored?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

Only if the Forum passes the hat and supplies me with a premier sound system that would enable me to give a truly detailed rating.

C'mon, boys, pony up. Daddy needs a new pair of Martin Logan Vantage speakers.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-10-20 14:08:26

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"appear to have a combination of little to no life, a plethora of spare time and a rather self-inflated sense of our own ability to decide on what is and what is not any good"

Appears?! APPEARS!??

I would say the data are IN on this, and there is no need to waffle...you can infer with great confidence this is true.

I have spent most of my time here letting folks know that we, or at least me, can with utter abandon clue one and all about the good, the bad, and the ugly, whether it be in music post-71, or the most recent post by someone with less than perfect punctuation (egads!).

Anything less is only a step away from GoP's once upon a time Post Modernist Position (which is both self-refuting and self-indulgently supporting in a pathetic sort of way).

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

W.T.: Please take a minute to pull our dead head out of your ass and define post modernism. As applied to my comments on the other board, your attempt(s) at intellectualizing the banal demonstrates only a narrow mind that is clearly stuck in time. While the other children don scary masks and costumes on the 31st of this month, you, sir, put on a cobwebbed wig of innocuous ignorance and endlessly celebrate the 12th.

Is being so horribly stuck in time pre-modernist?

In short, you preternatural scrotum scratcher: 4-29-71.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Well? Aren't you going to continue? C'mon...you know you want to...what other reason would there be to come back over here?

It's all in good fun!

At least I hope you think so...

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 21, 2009 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

I always thought that the post modernist paradigm was simply an attempt to write more dubios dissertations.

What would Jaques Derridas say? Or Hillis Miller.

The "our" was one hell of a Freudian typo!

My "argument" on the other biard was certainly not post anything--sim0ly a post to indicate what asthetic particualrs of 4-29-71 pleased me more than 8-06.

Silly wabbit!

On that subject, really---the bottom line is that they really played the shit out of HtoH for about a year and a half. And choosing the "best" on is simply a matter of taste. And choice.

My God--to actually try to wrap a Grateful Dead debate in such scaret covers and call it your own.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 21, 2009 1:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Ah--a tenet of virtually all schools of thought within PM is that art cannot be judged. Thus, although I take your point that the finer distinctions between two versions of H2H might be taste, when I provided evidence that more folks selected one version over another, you seemed to suggest such things were impossible to judge, period.

Ergo, Post Modernity and you agree...that's all.

Say, you seem more upset about the PHUD market than elb!? You can't be that down on it can you? I suppose the folks in lit are sometimes a bit too much--maybe that's why the PM'ers really excel in that domain of the academy!?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Oct 23, 2009 2:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

William: this un-lit (or is it dim-lit?) isn't even going to gander a guess at any of that...but i will add this to the fray




Excerpt from the forward to Gordan Delamont's Modern Harmonic Technique:
"The development of the ear must be stressed every step of the way. Every note, every chord, and every chord movement must be comprehended aurally. Unless this is done, the study of harmony is meaningless. Experimentation, an open mind, skepticism, and - above all - continued ear training and listening are encouraged. It is well to remember that technical books deal with what has been done and not necessarily with what can or will be done."





Delamont's lessons and associated exercises are intended to allow the student to both identify and successfully apply sound relationships within a given context...not just to compose music that is merely "grammatically correct" but music that sounds like it actually means something

so, if the task of choosing starts with the sound (energy/emotion) in the composers or musicians mind, then by the same token shouldn't the task of choosing also rest with the sound (energy/emotion) that reaches the listeners mind?

technical understanding of music is only for convenience, not a goal in itself (applies to both musician and listener)

analogue>digital>analogue...the digital portion of the exchange is only one's and zero's

assuming that every mind is different, it is reasonable to expect the sounds both generated and received will have different effects on those minds

(man, that was really awkward!)



as a side bar, Delamont coined the term, "tonal vision" because he had yet to find another word or phrase in the English language that describes the musical sounds people hear in their minds

This post was modified by midnight sun on 2009-10-23 09:52:55

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 23, 2009 5:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"assuming that every mind is different, it is reasonable to expect the sounds both generated and received will have different effects on those minds"

Interesting stuff...I can see the above notion in a pure technical sense, but I suppose the "commonality" of human experience is what also impressed me at DEAD shows. EG, the band I have talked about, HS DEAD cover band, they were actually quite good, went with me to every DEAD show, virtually, and we talked endlessly about it...I cannot sing, do not know notes, etc., but we had fundamentally the same appreciation of Phil's bass and his playing, etc., etc., etc. Other kids were child prodigies, playing cello every day of their lives, able to pick out things I never could, but we still liked the same songs...same riffs, etc.

Not sure how that fits in with the singularity aspect he touches on...

Cool stuff either way.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Oct 23, 2009 11:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

so you're saying your musician friends heard more because they were exposed to and understood more concepts?

gonna have to think about that one for another year or so :)


with music, the pitfall seems to lie in believing that the technical aspect of the process is paramount when judging, or for that matter, creating the content, even more so for composition students because harmonic studies appear to be quite mathematical when examining note, scale and chord relationships (not to mention fretboard patterns, the nemesis of the guitarist)

imagine it would be similar to trying to judge (or create) poetry by the frequency and order of the letters chosen with little regard to the effect of the words, or judging fine art by only examining the brush strokes up close w/o stepping back to take in the view

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 23, 2009 12:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Good analogy...good fud fer thought too.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"take a minute to pull our dead head out of your ass"

I would, but yours is in my way.




[hmmm--just realized your typo makes it better]

EDIT: here's some great stuff on PM & what's wrong with it:

“…Postmodernism…holds that there is no truth, no basic right or wrong, nothing good or bad, nothing evil or noble, nothing moral or immoral.” Dobson

"A generation raised on channel-surfing has lost the capacity for linear thinking and analytical reasoning." Colson

“…postmodernism is an expression of a wider paranoia over anti-foundationalist philosophy…A number of positions are postmodernist: Discourse is all there is, as if discourse were some kind of monistic stuff out of which all things are composed; the subject is dead, I can never say “I” again; there is no reality, only representation.” Butler

“…all responses to modernity abandon either the critical or rational element in philosophy, and that the postmodern condition is one of self-deception...without both critical and rational traditions, society cannot value the individual…social structures will tend towards totalitarianism…universalism is the fundamental requirement for any rational criticism, and to abandon this is to abandon the liberalizing reforms of the last two centuries.” Habermas


This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-10-20 18:46:07

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Poster: daliguana Date: Oct 20, 2009 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Photobucket

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 21, 2009 7:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Gee nice pic again ,Daliguana !

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Poster: daliguana Date: Oct 20, 2009 3:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Photobucket

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Thanks D! I can't believe how good those headphones look on Miss D...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"self-refuting and self-indulgently supporting"

Isn't that the motto above the door of this place (loosely translated from the original Latin of course)?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 8:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

I know it's terribly bad taste to say so, but I really think someone should be compiling all this drivel...the Epic Earl Post as you noted below turned out to be both entertaining and educational, if I do say so myself.

Of course there's all the info on the band, and with the likes of LiA contributing, it is certainly valuable. But, you could put all my 68-babble in a thimble that's worth keeping (though if it inspired one budding forumite to change their era, that might be an important effect), and yet I think many of our conversations have actually had some significance in terms of assisting in small ways with our own self enlightenment (crap...cue the New Age Holier than the Unenlightened Masses string section now I suppose...argh).

Anyway, great fun...great fun.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Are you suggesting the existence of an internet archive to archive the discussions that are stimulated by an internet archive? Should it have a forum where people can comment on the comments that are made here and if so where will those comments be archived?

My head is starting to hurt.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 20, 2009 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"Should it have a forum where people can comment on the comments that are made here and if so where will those comments be archived?"

It does. It's here. And you're in it.


(cue Twilight Zone theme....)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 9:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"an internet archive to archive the discussions that are stimulated by an internet archive"

Leave it to me to miss the obvious!

Lets hope the times we were mucking around in the sewer of the Forum were saved as well...I suppose it all is, eh?

Good news for those of us without a real life, or I should say, one so pathetic we find great satisfaction in entertaining and educating (?) the like minded while taking refuge here...with luck we can apply some of it all to our interactions with the bottom dwelling butt-munchers that beset us when we are forced to interact outside our comfort zone.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 20, 2009 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

It's all here.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=158342

Our every submitted utterance, whether carefully considered, off the cuff, profound, profane, self-indulgent, contradictory, supportive, castigating, insulting, embracing. It's all recorded. It's like being locked in a hall of mirrors.

Borges would have loved this place.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 9:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

I was really hoping for a forum about the forum that also had a TDIH. Imagine this (cue dream sequence squiggly lines):

TDIH - SDH

Yes on this day in 2008, SDH reviewed a Grateful Dead show from 1980 and he (or she, do we really know?) said that the Shakedown>Franklin's caused him to break 4 chairs!! Amazingly in 2005 he also reviewed a Grateful Dead show from 1985 and said that the Lost Sailor>Drums>Space>Saint caused him to break 5 chairs, 3 because of rocking and two in anger because Bluedevil puked on his shoes!!" This dude broke 9 chairs TDIH!! Where else can you read this kind of stuff! We truly are blessed.

(end dream sequence squiggly lines)

Then again....

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Yes, this is one of those days long rued by wooden items of posterior repose. Thanks for the reminder about '80. I'll have to dig that one out for the ride home.

As for all this talk of reviewing the reviews, is that not the perfect use of our pompous, self-aggrandizing verbosity?

Again, methinks.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 20, 2009 11:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Pompous verbosity ,hé ? Yep , I noticed how deadheads here indulge in that ,specially about their know it all dates of shows and such !

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

"Are you suggesting the existence of an internet archive to archive the discussions that are stimulated by an internet archive? Should it have a forum where people can comment on the comments that are made here and if so where will those comments be archived?

My head is starting to hurt."

Who will read these threads, you ask.

I'm picturing the cave at the end of Planet of the Apes when George Taylor, Nova, and Dr. Zaius discover the human doll. Except this time it says, "Blow me". Or, "TDIH" Or, "Baaaaa-Mooooo" Or __________


TOOTMO

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Oh yeah...too good, absolutely too good.

Of course, it might be an anti-arabic tirade, and that might be too scary, eh?

What if Tito rules this Post Forum Apocalyptic world?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

post of the day!!

amazing work - great Planet of the Apes reference!!!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Perfect!! Thanks for sharing that vision.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

Outstanding.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Oct 20, 2009 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

This is the very concept behind every Ph. D. dissertation I've ever come across--dribble about dribble about semi-dribble about a writer's works.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 20, 2009 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell rises to the challenge...

archives to archive the comments made on comments already archived ? Why ,i thought this is exactly for this forum is already al about !

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Poster: waynecs Date: Oct 20, 2009 8:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

"Methinks."

Nice touch.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

I don't think that quality vs. quantity is the objective of the archive. I think it is to archive everything. Does that make it convenient? Not really although I can't imagine if libraries had infinite space they would start throwing away old books because pretty new versions also occupy the same shelves. Okay maybe not a perfect analogy, but you get my meaning.

Here is what IA says its reason for existence and stated goals are.

"Libraries exist to preserve society's cultural artifacts and to provide access to them. If libraries are to continue to foster education and scholarship in this era of digital technology, it's essential for them to extend those functions into the digital world.

Many early movies were recycled to recover the silver in the film. The Library of Alexandria - an ancient center of learning containing a copy of every book in the world - was eventually burned to the ground. Even now, at the turn of the 21st century, no comprehensive archives of television or radio programs exist.

But without cultural artifacts, civilization has no memory and no mechanism to learn from its successes and failures. And paradoxically, with the explosion of the Internet, we live in what Danny Hillis has referred to as our "digital dark age."

The Internet Archive is working to prevent the Internet - a new medium with major historical significance - and other "born-digital" materials from disappearing into the past. Collaborating with institutions including the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian, we are working to preserve a record for generations to come.

Open and free access to literature and other writings has long been considered essential to education and to the maintenance of an open society. Public and philanthropic enterprises have supported it through the ages.

The Internet Archive is opening its collections to researchers, historians, and scholars. The Archive has no vested interest in the discoveries of the users of its collections, nor is it a grant-making organization."

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 20, 2009 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats with all the flotsam and jetsam?

ok - so you're right.


But I was pithier.